前女友欠債，我是擔保人，點算？

tingting27

我7年前為前女友為的學生資助貸款及免入息審查貸款做了擔保人.畢業後前女友一直有固定工作但未有還款，現學生資助署，要求我代為還款，否則會入品法院。對我來說，在欠款人有能力而固意拖欠的情況，要我代其還款十分不公，請問我可以怎麼做？

而且學生資助暑一直只靠書信，未有全力追討欠債人之債項，請問我可否從這個角度去反對學生資助署對我既追討。急，求教

lawson.

樓主, 我好同情你的遭遇,

但都無辦法幫你

由於你同意做擔保人, 係欠款人無償還久款的情況下

佢地係有權追你的, 佢佢地追唔追欠款人, 用咩辦法追唔係考慮因素

依d野其實係份擔保書都會寫明

不過, 你可以就此債項追討你前女友

真心英雄

一係幫你前女友還 ,一係你同你前女友傾掂佢

ken1ken

Leave Hong Kong and run away.

lawson.

ken1ken 發表於 2011-6-22 15:24

                               
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Leave Hong Kong and run away.

為左少少錢走佬

你無野呀

devil00o

first, don't panic
second, ask them to show you the doc; meanwhile go look for your ex-girl friend. just need to know her home and work address...
a. if they can't the doc, case dismiss
b. if they have the doc and u find her address, u can call police to file against ex gf as詐騙 (criminal)
last but not least, every civil case has "time frame" u better check it out is that still ok they can file small claim after 7 years!!!

smuck141

tingting27 發表於 2011-6-21 08:20

                               
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我7年前為前女友為的學生資助貸款及免入息審查貸款做了擔保人.畢業後前女友一直有固定工作但未有還款，現學 ...

作為擔保人，一般嘅擔保文件會有條款話你就欠債係有一個共同及獨立嘅責任 (joint and several liability)，即係你同欠債人一齊及是但一個都要負責，所以學生資助處有權選擇告欠債人或者擔保人或者兩個都告，而你係唔可以用欠債人應該自己俾番錢學生資助處作為抗辯理由。但係因為你係擔保人，法律係容許你向欠債人申索，要求佢就住你向學生資助處支付嘅錢向你作出彌償 (indemnity)，即係俾番錢你。

lawson.

devil00o 發表於 2011-6-23 13:59

                               
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first, don't panic
second, ask them to show you the doc; meanwhile go look for your ex-girl friend.  ...

i am sorry to say that even u find your ex-girl friend

i dont think you can report the matter to the police by alleging "deception"

there is no element for deception in this case, i am quite sure that the police cannot provide with any assistance

you are right that there is time limiting for commencing civil litigation

however, though the Guarantee was signed 7 years ago,

it does not mean that the liability will ceased simply because it is 7 years ago

it all depends on the terms of the Guarantee

As relating to government loan, it is usuall that repayment shall only be repaid after graduation

i.e. some how 3 or 4 years later, time does not run until time for repayment

so any demand made now will no doubt within the time limit

長沙灣王子

你大碌镬啦! 找多份工作吧!

devil00o

回應 黑仔神 的帖子

brother, as common law in HK,
as long as his ex gf has the eligible ability to payoff the loan but didn't.
he can file deception against her, also request cop to arrest her...........
a lot of people say no because no one really enforce, it would cause him $50,000 to got a laywer.............. and a lot of people thinking this one is civil as small claim court........

p.s. this case is under government loan, he could do that.

devil00o

回應 黑仔神 的帖子

oh. he could also request cop to arrest her by.........

but i don't think he really want to do that........

smuck141

devil00o 發表於 2011-6-24 13:33

                               
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回應 黑仔神 的帖子

brother, as common law in HK,

There is no element of fraud here.

There may be "deception" in the moral sense in that he was "cheated" (through his love and affection towards the girl) to become the guarantor of her debt to the Government student loan scheme, but this is not by itself actionable and certainly not punishable under any criminal provisions.

This is no more than a civil claim and dispute and the Police will not take any action and certainly will not arrest the girl because there is no element of criminality involved. This is a simple case where the girl has breached her contractual obligations (with the Government) to repay, and this is a simple contract claim.

As I have already explained, the only course open to him is to make a civil claim against the girl for full indemnity of whatever sum that he may have paid to the Government in his position as the guarantor.

smuck141

黑仔神 發表於 2011-6-24 11:55

                               
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i am sorry to say that even u find your ex-girl friend

i dont think you can report the matter to  ...

Only want to add that usually when one signs a guarantee it will be in the form of a deed, and under our law a claim can be made on a deed within 12 years.

lawson.

devil00o 發表於 2011-6-24 13:33

                               
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回應 黑仔神 的帖子

brother, as common law in HK,

please be reminded that criminal law is governed by statute but not common law

to be charged under deception, the crminial element under the ordinance must have to be proved

in this case, there is none.

the ex-gf has not done anyhting to deceive the bf to sign the guarantee

bearing in mind that there is not direct relation between the gf and the bf

even if the gf choose not to pay, then there will be a cauise of action by the bank

but not bf, and it is a civil action only

since the bf has covenanted to repay under the Guarantee, he has to pay

since no criminal element is invloved , police will do nothing and cannot provide assistance as alleged.

ps.. a few things to add

1. government loan is no different with private / money lender's loan
2. small claim tribunal has no jurisdiction over criminal matter

devil00o

回應 smuck141 的帖子

thanks for your info, i understand in majority of case, u are right,

詐騙 definition is kind of broad, that's why cops and lawyer try to stay away on this term.

詐騙, first thing need to prove, is does he/she really intense to do that.........

however, in this case~~

"在欠款人有能力而固意拖欠".......

it can consider as 詐騙。。。。similar as 欺騙踪援～

that's y the first thing i ask brother to check where she lives and work to make sure she is eligible to pay but not.

** as a co-signer for student loan only!! is different than normal case.
     co-signer will rarely need to make the payment.
     
     90% they will extend the lending term or reduce principle, case by case, i have seen already graduate for 10 yrs still paying the debt...............
   
     or borrower is pass away................ lol
     
     

devil00o

回應 黑仔神 的帖子

yes, u are right........

but in this case "在欠款人有能力而固意拖欠的情況".........

pls check the one i reply for smuck141

devil00o

so brother, pls find your ex gf out first!! this is more important~~

smuck141

devil00o 發表於 2011-6-24 17:21

                               
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回應 smuck141 的帖子

thanks for your info, i understand in majority of case, u are right,

It is different from CSSA fraud because CSSA fraud usually happened when the person applying for CSSA in fact had the financial means when he/she applies for CSSA but has deliberately conceal her financial means from the Social Welfare Department. Here, the girl has no financial means when she borrowed the student grant loan (in fact, some grant loan under the "non means" stream does not even consider the applicant's financial means) so there is no element of the girl defrauding the Government when she applies for the grant. Her refusal to pay subsequent to the grant of the loan, despite her being able to do so, is an event subsequent and at most amounted to her breach of her contract with the Government and this would render her liable in a civil claim, but there is no criminality involved. I hope this helps clear the air.

lawson.

devil00o 發表於 2011-6-24 17:23

                               
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回應 黑仔神 的帖子

yes, u are right........

bro, i think smuck141  has cearly answered your question

the present case is completely different from "CSSA" case

in CSSA case, you have to make a statutory declaration to confirm your financial status

if you deliberately conceal your financial stauts in obtaining the loan from government

no doubt there would be a deception, in the meantime, you may also be liable for "fraud declaration"

however in the present case, the girl have never liie for the purpose of obtaining the loan

nor to induce the boy to execute the Guarantee.. Thus, there is no element of fraud which will render her be liable for deceiption

Even she refused to make repayment, it is just a breach of contract but will niot in any event attract criminal liability

Please does not mix the matter up

devil00o

回應 smuck141 的帖子

大大！！

你講既得沒錯。。。不過。。。
４０％既綜緩個案一開始都係禁、
從無工到有工、成三個月都吾取消綜緩。。。。
禁算吾算詐騙？？？

詐騙係一個好複雜既指控、簡單來講、係有人意圖做一的野、令人地損失金錢或時間或精神、而自己從中獲利～～

大部方詐騙個案都係草草了事、除非係大数字、如果吾係受害者都抱住買個教訓既心態～～

呢件個案、如果男事主前女友真係有能力而吾還、男事主可以對前女友提出詐騙既指控、不過一定要有真憑實據！！！如果吾係會好麻煩。。。。重有、就算男事主羸左、而前女友又吾紹錢俾律師費、男事主係有責任俾嫁！！！

學生貸款既條文同並通貸款既條文係有吾同。。。請深究～

講真、如果真係如男事主所講、十萬銀我先諗下接吾接。。。。又要偵探又要詐騙。。。手尾重要好長。。。煩死！